Why Podcasting is the Next Big Thing with Dave Jackson of the School of Podcasting

Jacob Harmon: Welcome back to another episode of trust cast. And today might be my favorite episode so far, at least in anticipation of the guest, because I have Dave Jackson. He's a hall of fame, podcaster. He has multiple podcasts that I listened to, and I'm just super excited to have you on the show.

Dave, how are you doing today?

Dave Jackson: I'm excited to be here.

Jacob Harmon: Awesome. Well, obviously the big topic I want to discuss with you is podcasting and how we can build trust with podcasting. Uh, before we kind of dive into that,

‍Dave's Podcasting Story [00:00:35]

what is been your experience with podcasting and how did you get into the podcasting space?

Dave Jackson: Oh man.  My background, I'll try to do this quickly. My is in teaching. I taught a lot of Microsoft office and QuickBooks and customer service and time management back in the corporate world. I did that for decades. But as I was, and I, I'm not making this up, he used to teach people how to surf the internet because they didn't know what it was.

And so I was building websites with like Microsoft front page. And I had gotten involved with internet marketing because I was a big nerd at the time. And a friend of mine came back from this big conference and he said, you know how you missed the MySpace boat, which again tells you how long ago this was.

And I go, yeah, yeah, don't rub it. And he goes, I just came back from this conference. He goes, the next big thing is going to be podcasting. And I remember I Googled it and there was a page and a half and I went, I think I broke the internet, like, and I Googled it again. I'm like, well, that's weird. There's like, there's just nothing about this topic.

 And  there are two things that happened. Number one,  I uploaded this file. I just put together this, you know, all the backend of it. And I remember seeing, see my file come down. And that's when the light bulb, I was like, Oh, I see what this does. And then I started a podcast for musicians.

And within a month I got a voicemail from my guy in Nuremberg, Germany, and I went. Wait, what? Cause I'm in the middle of Cowtown, Ohio, and there's some guy on the other side of the planet that not only found my podcast, but liked it. And I did, at that point, it just grabbed my flag and stuck in the ground.

I'm like I hear by do myself. Podcasting is the coolest thing ever. And, uh, have been in ever since the F the first years were horrible. Cause nobody knew what it was and it was just a bunch of nerds doing it, but it's been fun to, to watch it grow and grow and grow. You know, that was back in 2005. So that's how I got involved.

Jacob Harmon: man. I kind of wish I had a time machine and I could go back in time and start at that point. Cause I'm starting now and podcasting, isn't quite so new. And I feel like there's a little bit more friction of getting a show started and getting listeners because of that. , but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

I kind of wish I could go back in time.

Dave Jackson: Yeah, it was, I mean, that's why all the early shows were the,   tech shows because you kind of had to be a geek just to get one up and going and back then  we were excited when Apple got. Uh, podcast into iTunes. Cause you could, you could plug a cable in by an iPod and basically plug your iPod in, go take a shower and come back and your, your podcasts would be ready, but then you'd be out in your car.

And you're like, well, I've listened to all four episodes of, you know, every episode that's available basically. And you're like, Oh, I guess I'll have to go home and sync again where, so it's, it's a whole lot easier now. So.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah. And you mentioned that at that time, your friends said it was the next big thing. I still think it's the next big thing. I think that, especially when you compare it to other things like blogs and YouTube and other types of content marketing, I feel like podcasting for better or for worse is still relatively new.

And there's still a whole lot of people who haven't started listening to podcasts. I feel like there's a lot of growth opportunity too.

Dave Jackson: Yeah, , my favorite story about this was you'd mentioned, I got inducted into the podcasters hall of fame and I, it had been announced and I told my family, and then I went to a family picnic. It was like, I think it was in July, might have been July 4th. And I walked into my one cousins, like others, Mr.

Hall of fame. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever. And he said, all right, I'm going to say it. And I go, what? And he goes, I know that I know you're all about pod. He goes, what's a podcast. And I said, I said, do you have a phone? He goes, yeah, I have an iPhone. I go, Oh, good. I go bring it over. I'll show you how to find one in subscribe in.

Literally all of my cousins were like, wait, hold on. I got to see this too. So there are a whole bunch of people that didn't want to admit. I have no idea what a podcast is, but that guy seems to really be into it. So I think we all need to me when people go, what, what do we need in podcasting? And go, we need Google to make a commercial.

And just say, Google so cool that we have podcast out. And then here's how you search subscribe. You know, that like, just to, you know, what do we need? We need more listeners at this point.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah, we deal. But at the same time, I feel like it's, it's growing organically very well. It used to be, I started podcasting about two years ago. So basically nothing compared to you, but when I started nobody, like you said, Almost everyone. I talked to the right way to podcast. Like what is that? And then within until years, which is nothing, I now never have to explain what a podcast is to people.

They at least know what it is. They may not listen, but at least they know what one is, you know?

Dave Jackson: Well, and we used to go crazy. Wouldn't be like, Hey, Maytag is starting a podcast. Like, wow, that's cool. and then it was like, Oh my gosh, somebody on this TV show said the word podcast. And now every news station is like, Hey, thanks for watching us tonight. Subscribe to our podcast in Apple. And everyone's just like, yeah, we all assume that we know what it is.

And I'm like, so it's gone mainstream. So that's a, we just need the mainstream to go. Oh, wait, what, what did he say? I need to look this up, so that'd be great.

Jacob Harmon: Well, and

‍How Podcasting Creates Trust and Authority [00:05:24]

you've talked a little bit about the potential of putting something out there and then somebody clear across the world realizing who you are and what you do and building trust with you, right? The topic of this show. And that concept is just amazing to me, the fact that you can throw something out there into the universe and.

People will find it, you know, and that's, really what draws me to podcasting. is it that a podcast builds trust?

Dave Jackson: a couple of things. Uh, number one, I always tell people when you're, when you're getting ready to launch, I said, record a couple episodes. You're going to delete the first couple, because they're just horrible because you know, the first time you go to tie your shoe, it doesn't work either. So you do a couple as a practice and I sit in then  pay attention as you get close to one that you're going to keep.

Because you want to say, okay, that took me X amount of hours to do that. Okay. Now let's come up with a schedule. That you can do on a consistent basis. So maybe that's two a month, maybe it's one a week, whatever it is. And I said, and then, you know, record a couple, have a couple in the can as we call it.

And then by scheduling, by having that, like, for me,  the school of podcasting has been every Monday for 15 years. I have never, even when I got hit by a deer, And I go, I couldn't get home. I still had, luckily I had a microphone in my backpack and a laptop, and I did the podcast from a hotel room, but I've never missed.

And the reason for that is you become part of their routine. I have people email me and they're like Dave you're with me every Monday when I go to the feed store and I'm like, All right. It's great. And I love feed, you know? Um, so that's one way you earn trust, but just by always being there. So you, you become trustworthy that way.

Then when you bring great content. And you say, Hey, if you try this, I did this and this is what happened. And I think if you do this, you're gonna, you're gonna find you're gonna like that too. And so your audience goes, you know what? I've never thought of it that way. I'm going to try it. And then they try and they go, it actually works.

So now you've given them value and then like that guy wasn't lying, you know, she's pretty good. So now you're,  consistent with your schedule. You're consistent with your, uh, your value in your content. And then the other thing it does is if you can just share a little bit about yourself. So I always tell people if you can work some sort of story of your life into a point.

That you're making in your show. Now they,  get to know a little bit about you. So like when Muhammad Ali died, when I was growing up, that guy was just champed forever. So as a little kid, I was a big Muhammad Ali fan. And then as I got older and I read about all the things he did with. With civil rights and, and he's just so much more than a boxer.

And you think about it, what a marketing guy. I mean, the guy had all is, you know, stinging like a butterfly and, uh, I'm the greatest of all time, he would completely unique. So I had all these lessons from Mohammad Ali. So I was still talking podcasting, but I was talking Mohammad Ali and I had so many people come out of the woodwork.

Like, Hey. He was my champ too. And so then you're like, you start having that conversation and you're building that relationship with your audience outside of just, you know, microphones and bandwidth and that typical kind of discussion. So I think all those things kind of build trust. And then  the other thing I did that I really didn't think was a big deal is I started putting my bloopers at the very end of my show.

So if I had something where I just tripped over my tongue or whatever. And I remember the first time I did that, I had a bunch of people that said, wow, I'm so glad you did that. And I was like, well, what's, what's the big deal. And they're like, we thought you were perfect. And I'm like, Oh, so, so far from it.

And so the fact that I was able to kind of be vulnerable and say, no, here, here are my words. I'm not perfect either. That seems to be something that people really appreciate.

Jacob Harmon: Wow. Thank you so much. That was. Some great points. I think vulnerability, telling stories from your life or things that can connect you with people, um, and being consistent. Yeah. I think that, especially that consistency piece for me, that's currently my podcast. We knew this one we just started. I think this is well we're under 10 episodes still, but for me, consistency is huge because that.

Is what shows when somebody can go and scroll back, even if they're a brand new listener, but they can see, man, this guy has been producing content for 15 years or, or a year or a month or whatever it ends up being. That's huge because that proves one, that you're a reliable person that when you say you're going to do something, you're going to do it and that you're ready to show up, you know?

Um, and I think in business specifically, those are attributes that. You can put them on a resume and it doesn't mean much, but if you can have proof and a podcast feed for me is proof that you can produce something consistently over time.

Dave Jackson: Yeah. , and the consistency for me, it's, it's kind of weird because I obsess over the Monday thing, but I obsess even more over, am I going to deliver value? Cause I would rather have a show one day late or two days late that I go, wow. That was a great episode. Then give me something on time that I'm like, no, it was all right.

So, uh, and the other thing, if you do have to take a break, you can, again, boost your cause. You know, life happens. And I think my favorite example of this is Mike Rowe. Does it show he's the guy from dirty jobs and it's called that's the way I heard it. And he said, Hey, I've got an announcement to make. Uh, I'm going to take a little hiatus because I have good news.

He goes, that's the way I heard it is going to be turned into a book and I can't write the book and do the podcast and keep my sanity. And that's, we have to remember your audience likes you. And they don't then it's not like, they're like, Oh, I can't believe he's going to be under me to go write a book.

It's like, Oh, good. I more success for Mike. And then he said, but I will be back on this date. And sure enough, on that date, he came back and said, Hey, I've got great news. The books is done. It'll be available on this date and blah, blah, blah. And he goes, I've got more good news. They're thinking of turning the podcast into a TV show and he goes, and consequently, He goes, I'm not going to take a hiatus, but I am going to adjust my schedule.

So I think as long as you keep your audience in the loop, it's when all of a sudden you just disappear for a month that they're like, wow, I hope something bad. happen to him. Or I hope she didn't get hit by a car or something like that. So I think as long as you keep your audience in the loop,  and that's again, when, if we're talking trust, that's the key to trust is communication.

How can you Create Value as a Podcaster? [00:11:33]

‍Jacob Harmon: Yeah, a hundred percent. I couldn't agree more with that. and you talk about providing value and I know this might be a difficult question like, , how do you quantify value and how do we actually make sure we're creating value as a partner faster?

Dave Jackson: The for me, step number one of starting a podcast is why are you doing it? And step number two is who is this for? And for me, and I mean, don't guess you have to know who this is for. So if you've ever done secret Santa thing, At work and you're like, okay, Dave, time to pick a name and you pick your name.

And you're like, Harold in accounting. I don't even know. Is there a Harold in accounting? I don't, I've never heard of this guy. So what do you do? You have to go find somebody in accounting and go, Hey, what's Harold into. And they're like, Oh, he's a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan. He loves the quarterback and you're like, Oh, so you go out and you buy a Jersey of the Philadelphia Eagles, quarterback, Jersey.

You give it to Harold. And Harold is like, Oh my gosh, who, who's my secret Santa that I, Dave, I'm like, I want that guy every year, because you have to figure out who is your audience and what do they want? And that's really, I would say spend a hundred dollars on a microphone and a hundred hours getting to know who your audience is  I had a client that did a show. Uh, her son had special needs and she loved Disney. So the podcast was called special mouse and it was all about how to take people with special needs To amusement parks and the people that find that was like, I thought it was the only person going through this and she had this super tight knit Facebook group. So I think it really boils down to knowing what your audience wants. And for me, the, the worst phrase I ever hear in podcasting, and I don't hear it as much as I used to, but I used to hear them.

Well it's Wednesday. And, uh, I don't know what we're going to talk about, but, you know, I always told you, I'd give you a show on Wednesday and the midnight. I mean, I run to my phone wherever it is and hit stop. Cause that person is going to waste 45 minutes of my time.  I went to a second city once in Chicago.

It's this famed improv group that a half of Saturday night live, came from and I went and watched it. And I'm here to tell you those are professional improv people and it was not good. I mean, there was some that were like hilarious. It was either really good or really bad. And I'm like, if people that do improv for a living, can't do it a hundred percent.

What makes you think you're going to. Do it. So, uh, it really does come down to who is your audience and then what do they want? And then give it to them.

Jacob Harmon: Okay. Since you're talking a little bit about subpar content or content than necessarily isn't the best. What happens when you have one of those types of episodes? Would you rather just throw it out, try again, or do you do it for consistency sake and learn from the mistakes and keep going?

Dave Jackson: Aye, not every one of my episodes is, is gold. I will be the first to admit that. and it's always interesting poses. You'll put some episodes out that you're like, you think, wow, this is people are going to go nuts when they hear this. So you throw that out there and it's nothing but crickets. And then you have other ones you're like, I guess this has done enough.

I mean, it's yeah. Okay. And he kind of put it out and hope people don't yell at, you know, like that's the best episode ever. So that's always kind of fun. I have done. I remember once I had a guy come on and my audience primarily doesn't do a lot in video. It's mainly audio podcasts and he's a friend of mine.

He's he's really into video. And I told him, I said, we're going to talk about this and storytelling and blah, blah, blah. We're not going to really get too much into. Cameras and lenses and stuff. And sure enough, you know, you pull this guy string, he's a video guy. What's he started talking about lenses and f-stops, and I was just in the whole time, I was like, all right, you can talk about it all you want.

It's just never going to make it to my audience. So I would say you're, you're kind of the goalie.  And your audience is the net behind you. And if somebody tries to kick a soccer ball, pastor, you just go, no, that's not getting my Nope. Nope, Nope. And so I do a thing now I get a lot of people that approached me to be guests on my show.

And I always think it's kind of funny because some of them are just horrible where it's like, I would like to come on your show about podcasting and it's usually like, An agency that's approaching me. And they're like, because our, our experts is, you know, an expert mom and I'm like, what have I ever talked about being a parent on my, it's not what my show is about.

That's what, that's a bad topic, but that doesn't fit. So that's always kind of interesting, but I still get people that I'm like, huh, this could be a good fit. And what I've done is I always tell them. Hey, you know what? This sounds like. It could be a good fit. Let's get together. We'll kind of do a quick pre-interview and then we'll, we'll do the actual interview, but I need to let you know that if for some reason I feel this isn't a good fit for my audience.

I'm not going to publish the episode. And if you're cool with that, let's go ahead and move forward. And I've had one person that's like, well, if you're not going to publish it, I'm not going to do it. And I'm like, okay. There you go. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming. Uh, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

So I always want to leave that kind of door there, especially with somebody. I don't know. Most of my guests it's people I've either heard about or discovered or somebody just, again, we come back to trust. I had a friend of mine, uh, last week. I'm just talking about this guy from the darknet diaries. And I said, I've never heard of it.

He goes, Oh, he goes, you have to have Jack on your show. And I'm like, why? And he goes, he gets hundreds of thousands of downloads per episode. I go done sold, you know, and, and off I went to, to have him come on the show. So if it's somebody that I don't know, I want to kind of have that, you know, Egypt button that I can just say, Hey, nothing personal, but this doesn't fit.

Jacob Harmon: Okay. And I know that I've had moments where I'll sit down for an interview and I don't know if it's the guest or if it's me, or maybe I just was having a bad day, but I'm just not necessarily doing well as a host that day. And, um, what do you do in those types of circumstances? Would you  reschedule an interview or would you just do the best you can.

Sorry, I'm trying to ask some kind of selfish questions here because I'm getting into this podcasting space.

Dave Jackson: no, I, what I do is when I edit my audio, so I just did one last night. and it was a really nice guy and some of it I'll use, but I'm going to say the first 10 minutes, I'm not because I really. Didn't want to get into his backstory. Sometimes you need the backstory because it makes you appreciate where they're at now.

And then other times you just don't like, Hey, this is an expert on blank. Let's talk about blank, not so much where he went to school or whatever. And I asked him a question that kind of was meant to steer him past his. origin story or whatever. And he went right to his origin story and gave me every detail that I never, ever wanted.

And I was like, okay. Yeah. And in my head, I'm just, I'm cool. I'm like, all right. Hey, thank you so much. And ask him another question. And again, he kind of just went and, and so part of that, I. I kind of take blame on me. I did explain to him who I like. Here's why you're on the show. Here's who you're talking to.

Here are the topics we're going to cover. I usually don't give them the questions, but, um, for me, I don't, I don't care if I give them the questions or not. I just want them to know where I'm going. Cause otherwise if I, if they have no clue where they're going, we're back to improv, I'm going to throw you a subject and let's see you riff on it.

And I'm like, well, that doesn't make any sense. So I kind of said, here's why you're here. Here's what we're going to talk about. Uh, yada, yada, yada, and. We just went in to this weird spot. And I was like, well, that's not really what I want to go. So that's stuff I just cut out. Or if I have somebody who, uh, you know, if, if for some reason the last question I asked leads to this phenomenal, like, wow, I didn't know that that's amazing.

Holy cow. And in my head, I'm thinking, wow, this is,  19 minutes into the interview. I will take that and put it at the front. For the record. You have to make sure you're not making people say things they didn't say, but I can take that question and answer.

And if it doesn't, mess up the interview and say, well, let's, let's put that here. And then the rest can, you know, go out where it is. And again, the things that don't deliver value. Cause I'll, I'll listen to the question. I'll listen to the answer and then I stop and, and go. Does that deliver value to my audience?

No. Okay. It's gone. All right. Next question. Cause some people will say. You know, um, if I go, Hey, Jacob, uh, what time is it? And you go, Oh, it purple. Purple is my favorite color. Okay. , you gave me an answer, but you didn't, you didn't answer my question and you'll run into this with people that have, uh, either a, they are interviewed a ton, so they kind of have some default answers that they just pull or they're trying to promote their book or something like that.

But that's, and they're not trying to be, I don't think they're trying to be rude. They just have default answers that they've done forever. And you ask them a question either. They didn't. Pay attention or whatever, but they just give you an answer. And in my head, I'm like, I've heard that before, like I ask a question and I've listened to the answer and I go, they didn't really answer the question I asked, they gave me an answer.

So that's another thing I will just go, all right, pull it out.  And sometimes my interviews are 45 minutes long and sometimes they're, you know, 15, depending on,  what it is.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah. And it going back to the idea of trust building too. I think that that is another way you can build trust because you're not wasting your audience's time. Right? I, if I think about it, I mean, a podcast is quite an investment, even though oftentimes I'm listening to a podcast while I do something else, my podcast feed is so long and.

There's times where I'll just delete a podcast because they're not providing enough value and I've wasted enough hours of my life listening to them, you know? And so I think it's a very competitive space because once somebody is really into podcasting, they'll download a lot of podcasts, but then they only have so much time to listen to podcasts.

Right.

Dave Jackson: Oh, absolutely. And I was kind of

‍Podcast Editing [00:21:02]

when people will get me and they go, I just want to keep it real. And I'm like, when I hear that, I kind of go, I want to be real lazy is what it is because there are book editors, magazine, editors, movie editors, TV editors, but my podcast. Don't need any, and I'm all like, you know, Mount Rushmore used to be a bunch of rocks and then somebody went in and did some editing and made it at this giant sculpture.

So, uh, and I know in podcasting, there's no shirts like it's, it's free, man. Just do whatever you want. I'm like, all right. Just realize that. I mean, I've heard some really good interviews on Joe Rogan and I've also heard many episodes that I'm like, wow, that was a three hour interview. That could have been a phenomenal interview.

If it had been cut down to like. An hour. There were just times that it just, but you know, Joe, Rogan's been doing this since 1980 is when he started his career as a comedian. So he's got a big audience and he can handle doing that. But if it's just, Dave and his spare bedroom, I don't know. And I see a lot of people do that.

Like, well, the Joe Rogan does it and I'm like, yeah, Joe Rogan has an audience already. You're not Joe Rogan and you're not, uh, the four-hour workweek guy, Tim Ferriss. And I go, you know, let's get a little reality in here.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So since we're talking a little bit about editing and I love that analogy with Mount Rushmore, I, I might steal that one from you. And I'm talking to people because I hear the same thing. Like, Oh, we don't want that. We want to be authentic. We want to be real. Um, but. I feel like there is a diminishing return on editing.

Like how much is too much, because I could sit there and edit my podcast episodes for six hours and they could do all this work. And then I'm not a very big show. So I don't have a whole lot of downloads. Like when is it? I believe that it's important to edit, but when is too much, if you're just finicking at that point,

Dave Jackson: Well, there's a couple things. I was call it the, the podcast Seesaw for, I don't know if they still make seesaws, but there are these big boards that you would sit on and, and, and somebody would sit on one end and it would flip. And the other one, and for me on one end of the Seesaw is planning. And on the other end of the Seesaw is editing.

So if I don't do any planning, I'm going to do a lot of editing. And if I do a ton of planning, I'm going to do less editing. So it's kind of a give and take of those two. I think the ones where here's what I do. I, I, again, if it's an interview, I listened to the question and I just, I get to the end of that answer before I asked the next question.

I look at that as a chunk and go, all right, does that bring value? And, and then from there, if I have somebody that says something like, well, and, and, and, and we were thinking about this and I'm like, okay, we just need one. And, you know, I appreciate the four, but we just need one. So I'll take those out and obvious things like, um, I think that's something I would edit out.

So those I will take, but if I have somebody that goes, uh, I think that's something I would take out. I'm not going to go in there with a supple and try to figure out where the amended, you know, so I just go for what I call the low hanging fruit. And then from there, that's where I keep it real. I'm like, you know, people do say, um, people do say, you know, and for that, I go.

You know that way, but if it's, there are people that do that to the point where it becomes annoying. I used to work with a woman and she was a great teacher, but every time and I mean, it was something I don't think she even noticed every time she stopped, the next word out of her mouth was, um, so she would be saying something and she'd be like, and that's how you do, you know, such and such equations.

Um, the next thing we're going to talk about. And, and it was one of the things that once you noticed it, you couldn't turn it off. So, yeah, I, when I hear people, Oh, I edited this hour long podcast for 17 hours and I'm like, way tone on what, what is it, what did he did? How much planning did you do?

You know? It's like, well, that's, we were just talking about everything and I'm like, well, you know, maybe have a, an idea of why you brought somebody on or, uh, an idea of where you're going to go.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah. One of the things that I've noticed since I started podcasting is I've started to notice all the weird ticks that I do. And man, like, it's so hard to get rid of those things, but since I'm recording the show and then I go back and I edit myself, I just have learned like, this is all the horrible things that Jacob Harman does when he talks.

And I don't know how to fix it.

Dave Jackson: Oh, that's it. And some of them I know mine is, you know, and I say it so fast. You can't even hear it at times. I'll just be like, Hey, no, I was doing this thing. I quit. What was that? I was like, that's me going? Hey, you know, you don't. And so for that kind of stuff, I don't worry about, it's just the obvious things.

And like I say, if I, you know, if I ask a question and I say, well, was there ever a time when you felt really scared doing that? And they go, no, I don't like, well, does that bring value to my audience? So Mike, well, it shows that he's handling, you know, and that's things like that. I'm like, nah, that doesn't really, we can get that out.

Because again, if I have a thousand people listening to my. Podcast, Roman Mar said, this I'm going to steal it. Uh, if I have a thousand people listening to my podcast and I cut out a minute, I just saved a thousand minutes, which is however many hours of time and my audience. So I just know for me, the a, if you watch Netflix and you're watching a series and it gets to the end and it says, skip, if you ever notice that not only does it skip the end, credits it, skips the beginning credits and goes right to the content of the next one.

And if you actually watched Netflix now, Online, they have a speed up button and I'm like, if we need more proof that people want to get to the good stuff, you know, exhibit day, 

Netflix. 

Jacob Harmon: So since you mentioned skipping intros and credits and things, how do you feel about intros and podcasting? Obviously. So currently my podcast has a consistent intro. It's the same intro every single time. Is that a good thing? Is that a 

Dave Jackson: Oh, absolutely.

Jacob Harmon: time?

Dave Jackson: Yeah.  We think about our audience who is listening now, but right now we have more people who haven't listened than, than have, and nobody gets on a bus without knowing where it's going. So for me, yeah. Your podcast should explain what the podcast is about and then what the episode is about.

And then for the love of God, get to the meat and potatoes. Um, you know, I don't really need to hear what the weather's like in Seattle. I don't live there, but I appreciate it, but you know, that whole nine yards. And if you can do some sort of teas. I know today on the show, I'm going to show you how you can increase your profits by 27% without spending any money.

Intro, welcome to the Dave Jackson hour, where are we? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, here's your host, Dave Jackson. And I'm like, and if you can, um, work in some sort of reason why I should listen to you, which is hard. I will say that for the record, it's weird to toot your own horn, but I have to somewhat. Put something out there as to why should I listen to this guy as opposed to any of the other 27 podcasts about podcasting? So I always start off and I'm like, I'm your award-winning hall of fame podcast consultant, Dave Jackson. And it took me. I still, even when I do that, now there's a voice in my head that goes, you know, and I'm like, eh, you know, it's like, not that many people can say that.

So I guess I'm going to say it. So, uh, and again, just trying to answer the question, well, why should I listen to this guy?

Jacob Harmon: in my case, I've tried to keep my intro to right around a minute, because most podcast apps have a 32nd skip forward button. So I figured, Hey, if you've been listening for a while, you know, the intros there, press that button twice, you know? And I don't know, I don't know if people do that or not, but I figure if I was listening, that's what I would do.

Dave Jackson: Yeah, you can go into podcasts with an S podcasts, connect.apple.com and actually see how far people listen. And the first time I saw that, by the way, be careful what you wish for who there are times when you're like, wait, what? Uh, but I can see where there's like a minute. I guess the minute my podcast starts it, nose dives.

And I was like, wait, what's going on? And dawned on me. I was like, wait a minute. Where does it come back up? I'm like, Oh, about a minute in, Oh my God. It's people skipping it. And I can see where I think my audience on Apple, like 90% of them are subscribed. And I'm like, Oh, these are regular listeners.

They're like under, we need to hear Dave do a spiel again. And so I was like, all right, I'm fine with that.

Jacob Harmon: Yeah, very cool.

‍How can a Podcast help a Brand? [00:29:02]

So I'd like to kind of transition a little bit and talk since this is a marketing and brand loyalty show. Let's pretend we're a big corporation and we're thinking about doing a podcast for our brand. So it's not necessarily a personal brand. It's not a smaller show. It's not someone doing it in their basement.

what benefits and what recommendations would you have to a larger corporation wanting to get into the podcasting space?

Dave Jackson: in some cases, if you have those questions that your audience asks all the time. You know, if I'm a, a big real estate company, I could take, you know, how do I get my house appraised? I'm trying to think of things that I thought of when I was buying a house,  what kind of insurance do I need on my house?

Anything that you get all the time, those questions that as much as you love them, you kind of roll your eyes. Like, Oh, if I have to answer that again, those make great episodes because what happens then? It's like for me, and again, I'm not complaining, but people ask me what's the best microphone to get under a hundred bucks.

And I go the Samson Q2. Um, but if I had an episode, I could say, Oh, I recommend the same CIN, Q2, you, if you want to hear it, here's an episode on that very subject. So they go over and they say, Oh wow, there's an episode here, the best microphone under a hundred bucks. And then under that, they see one that says what's the best media hosting company.

And then they see another one. And now what happens is you answer all those questions. And I, I have a friend that's in real estate. He said, this is the best thing ever. He goes, because now when they come back, they're educated. He says all that one. One-on-one one stuff you don't have to do any more. And now they're asking you the, the kind of two Oh one questions he goes, so I'm getting a better educated customer.

And he goes, they now feel like they know me. He goes, so I already have this kind of trust going on. And I'm one of my favorite stories. I had a guy, I have a phone number on my website. And from time to time, I will actually answer that and not let it go to voicemail. And he called me up and I go, I pick it up.

I'm like, Hey, this is Dave. And he goes, Dave Jackson. And I go, yeah. And he goes, get out of here. And I'm like, no, seriously, it's Dave. And he goes, wow. He goes, well, I just figured I was going to leave a message. He goes, I'm driving from Minnesota to Georgia. He goes, I've been listening to you for about two and a half hours.

I just want to let you know that I don't know what I'm going to podcast about, but you're my guy. And I was like, well, that's great to hear buddy, you know, uh, keep your eyes on the wheel or whatever, you know, stay safe and I'm here whenever you want it. So you are kind of, um, Building that trust in, in, by answering those easy questions.

That's a great way , to do that. And then I've seen other companies that will get the CEO to come on because it's a, when, when do I remember Evernote used to have, uh, a podcast, they would have, uh, the, a couple of tech guys explaining what new features were coming. And then they would have the CEO come on and they would say, Hey, we have a question from, you know, Susan from Poughkeepsie has this question.

And it was like, wow, how often do you get to talk to the CEO of Evernote? So that was a cool little strategy sometimes. And it just made him again. Now I'm developing a relationship with the CEO of whatever the software is or whatever your company is. And they seem like a, you know what that guy, cause when you hear CEO, you think of.

I dunno for me. I just think of this, you know, stodgy business unapproachable, you know, stay away. It's, you know, these, the CEO and he, they just come on, like, I'm just a regular person, you know? She's great. So I think those are some things you could do 

Jacob Harmon: yeah.

That makes a lot of sense, especially like, I think of a lot of those CEOs that already have like a brand personality, um, because a lot of companies, you have no idea who the CEO is, unless you look it up, but then there's other companies I think of like Tesla, right? Where Elon Musk is basically his own celebrity.

Um, And that would be super fascinating because you already kind of have this raving fan base to be able to tap into that through a medium, like podcasting would be super, super interesting.

Dave Jackson: And, and if the CEO then starts spouting numbers or graphs or something about the industry and all of a sudden you're like, wow, you know what? She really knows her stuff. Wow. And then you're like, well, I totally trusted this company cause I know who's driving it. So there's all sorts of different ways that you can  just build your brand through your podcast.

I always say the, the podcast is not your business. It's your business card. And the great thing about it is it works 24 seven, you know, while I'm sleeping, I got people across the planet. Listen to my show.

Jacob Harmon: And another thing, I mean, this is kind of going back to what you talked about before, knowing your audience and knowing your, your ideal customer, uh, the Kevin from accounting or whatever. Right. Um, it makes me think so. I don't know, you probably haven't heard of this podcast in particular, but REI, which is an outdoor ,  sportswear type company.

They have a podcast called wild ideas worth living. And it's not even about sportswear. It's just about the outdoors. Right? And so what they've done is they've said, okay, our ideal clients have these interests. Let's create a podcast about those interests and then they're creating brand affinity that way.

So I think there's a lot of ways that podcasts can be used.

Dave Jackson: yeah. Dell had a podcast.   But it was these awesome stories. Like they had the story of Netflix and how Netflix basically knocked out blockbuster and all these different things where it was all kind of technology. So nerds were going to be interested in that.

And it was all about how these small companies came into, you know, basically disruptors. I think that was the name of the show disruptors. And it was all these different stories of how different companies had come in. And,  disrupted an industry. And I was like, that was really cool. And it wasn't, you know, they had a little pre-roll thing brought to you by Dell technologies.

And there might've been something in the middle, but I don't even think so. Cause they didn't want to interrupt the story. But I remember it was Dell technologies that put it on. So there, if you know who your target audience is, sure. Make a podcast that they're going to listen to and then just sprinkle your brand around it.

Jacob Harmon: Amazing. Yeah, I think that it's, it's just about to blow up. It's the next big thing, right? Going back to the beginning. Um, yeah. So before we kind of wrap things up here, Dave,

‍Sponsors and Podcasting [00:34:59]

is there something related to branding, marketing that we haven't touched on that you'd love to talk about real quick?

Dave Jackson: Um, I just have one more example of trust is if you're going to have sponsors on your show. Um, I, I had a book come out last year, called profit from your podcast. And everyone that I talked about, the did sponsors had the same thing and that was, I have to use the product first. Even though these quote aren't endorsements, they're sponsors and there technically is a difference, but there are no, I don't want to talk about a product unless I can, unless I know it's going to be good.

And I'm one of the guys I mentioned is, is his name's Glen Hiebert. He runs the horse radio network. He has like 18 podcasts, all about horses. And I just talked to him last week and I was asking about, he goes, I just turned out a big check and I go really? And he goes, yeah, he goes, they really wanted to come on the show.

  And it just wasn't something that I was like, Hey, this is a great fit for my audience. And he said, thank you so much for the opportunity. But, uh, no.  And I said, wow.

And he goes, well, you guys gotta realize, he said, if somebody buys one product. And it's not a good fit and it's not good quality. He goes the next time they hear a sponsor of mine, he goes, it's completely worthless. And I was like, that's a really good point.

Jacob Harmon: Wow. Yeah. And integrity. I mean, we've done full episodes on that and I'm sure we'll do more, but integrity is so important in business and just doing it's those little things that, that are going to build trust. So, yeah. Thank you so much for that, Dave. Well, I know that our listeners can find you all over the place.

Um, I have the school podcasting podcast you've got, um, one of my favorite shows actually is the, um, podcast review show where you actually have other hosts on and you talk to them about their podcasts. I learned so much from that. Where else can people find you?

Dave Jackson: Uh, if you want to find all my stuff, my main website, school of podcasting.com, but all my shows are listed at powerofpodcasting.com. Cause I it's just one of those where I it's a sickness. I just about, if you wait long enough, Dave, we'll start another podcast. So, but a lot of them, like you just mentioned the podcast review show that was brought on by somebody going, Hey, can you listen to my show and tell me if it's any good.

And I used to do that for free, and then it takes a long time to do that. So I was like, huh. What if somebody would pay me for this. And then I have another show called the podcast rodeo show, which is similar, only the, the tagline is where I grab a random podcast and see how long I can hang on.

And if you've ever seen mystery science theater, 3000, it's kind of like that for podcasting. I just, I just, whatever I'm thinking comes out of my mouth and sometimes it's good. And other times I'm like, wow, I'm really bored. This is really I'm bored right now. So that's a, you can find them all power of podcasting.com.

Jacob Harmon: Sounds great. Well, thank you so much, Dave. I really appreciate you being on the show. I've learned a lot, and so I'm very excited to be able to, to give the show out to them, to my listeners so that they can hear it too.

Dave Jackson: thanks for having me. This is a blast.